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Zorkmid Z$ und ähnliche Spiele werden verboten

Tina Capra

Aktiver Nutzer
Die Automaten sollen jedenfalls kein Geld mehr auszahlen.
Ich habe allerdings bisher vergebens nach einem offiziellen Post von LindenLab gesucht.

LG
Tina
 
Der Vollständigkeit halber:

Der Shutdown des Zorkmid-Servers ist 10PM SLT SUNDAY

Alle Aktivitäten sind bis dahin noch möglich (kaufen von neuen Automaten ist aber glaub ich sinnlos......).

Aargle ist in Verhandlungen mit LL, evtl. gibt es am Montag news.

Im Moment ist LL dran, alle Casino-Systeme, die über Umwege den Rücktausch möglich machen, zu stoppen, z.B. das Nugget-System.

Also, Casino-Ban No.2
 
Ich habs getestet, man kann nur noch einzahlen, aber sich keine Z$ mehr in L$ umtauschen lassen, die Match Manias funzen leider nicht mehr.

LG
Tina
 
Ledley kannst du mir ingame die Landmarke geben, bei mir zeigt das Match-Mania nur noch Fragezeichen an und lässt sich auch nicht mehr bezahlen.

Die Automaten funzten nicht, weil ich mich nicht auf den Platz davor gesetzt habe lol.

LG
Tina
 
Hier der Chatlog mit Socrates Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] über das Problem. Zu diesem Chat wurden die Game-Hersteller geladen. Es gab also keine offizielle Ankündigung des vorübergehenden Banns durch Linden.

Ein guter Freund hat mir den Chatlog zur Verfügung gestellt.
Vorsicht : Lang:

[12:01] Socrates Linden: welcome everyone for those of you new to the office hour



[12:08] Ayesha Lytton: Are the Z$ and similar systems legal? If so, why have you banned them? If not, why did you violate federal law and allow them to be used and sold despite examining them and receiving ARs? Please keep in mind before you answer, there are chat logs and records of Zara Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] stating that the systems are legal. In addition, their not being removed when there is 100% certainty that they were examined by LL employees prior to going on sale, is evidence that LL permitted the systems to be used. Will the owners of these systems be compensated for our financial losses due to the systems being allowed to be sold on your network in error?

[12:09] Socrates Linden: We don't have a clearance or write off any any object or script in world. If anything violaties our policy as it was last updated it will be subject to review.
[12:10] Jumpman Lane: ARE the z$ things banned?
[12:10] Ayesha Lytton: I am not aware of any policy changes between when the games were first ARed and their banning months later after many of us have spent considerable $

[12:11] Socrates Linden: No there have been no changes in policy, the last blog post stands as our official a policy
[12:11] Socrates Linden: If you want to know if something is legal or not, go by those guidlines
[12:11] Jumpman Lane: link?
[12:11] Socrates Linden: http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/08/09/anti-gambling-policy-update-faq/
[12:11] Jumpman Lane: i've been incommunicado
[12:11] Ayesha Lytton: Plus if the policy is a response to the federal laws regarding gambling, those laws have not changed within that time.

[12:12] Ayesha Lytton: Therefore either Z$ is legal, or it was never legal and you wrongly allowed it.
[12:12] Jumpman Lane: oh this IS new
[12:12] Pierce Kronos: Caveat Emptor
[12:13] Astra Constantine: i want to know Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] Labs response to this
[12:13] Socrates Linden: we do not "allow" anything, we only prevent things.
[12:13] miniads Clip: and i just want to no if its legal?
[12:13] Jumpman Lane: well ther is no way for LL to prevent someone from sellin stuff like that PRIOR t a review no on submitts things they make to LL for a review . the guys who tired it wer takin a chanceand knw it
[12:14] Socrates Linden: there is a way to know, review the info on that link.

[12:14] Socrates Linden: Ayesha do you have another question?
[12:14] Ayesha Lytton: Actually there is, they ARed themselves and were not removed for quite some time, before putting the system on sale
[12:14] Aargle Zymurgy interjects 2 points: 1) the G-team itself didn't allow/disallow it, but it went past the LL Lawyers several times, 2) Z$ wasn't the first; Sapphire Stars (S*) and others were also reviewed by those same laywers ... what? 4 months ago.
[12:14] Ayesha Lytton: No, go ahead
[12:15] Socrates Linden: done
[12:15] Public Microphone: Next up to speak is Jenner Wise
[12:15] Smoke Wijaya: When someone send ARs to check the legality of a system, and you guys did not deem it illegal at that point, you did allow it....
[12:15] Socrates Linden: Jenner ... go ahead
[12:15] Jenner Wise: Hello. I'd like to address the ongoing problem with residents filing false AR's or AR's with multiple acccounts at the same time. I received a warning this morning and I wasn't even logged today. I've reported the person doing it, so have others and still it continues. It's been four months straight now and it's getting to be more than an annoyance.
[12:16] Silver Umarov is Online
[12:16] Socrates Linden: When we get an AR, we investigate it. We act only on what we find and not the report itself
[12:16] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Shorty Kurka
[12:16] Jenner Wise: You do not investigate it.
[12:16] Entered chat range: Shorty Kurka
[12:16] Smoke Wijaya nods
[12:16] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Cotytto Bonetto, Nava Muni, Cold Spitteler
[12:16] Socrates Linden: Jenner I'm not here to lie to you. THey don't pay me enough for that
[12:16] Entered chat range: Cotytto Bonetto, Nava Muni, Cold Spitteler
[12:16] Jenner Wise: This sin't the first time. I've been suspended for things supposedly done on days that I wasn't even loggen in.
[12:16] Socrates Linden: I do this all day so I"d appreciate you not telling me how I do my job.
[12:17] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[12:17] Jumpman Lane: how much DO they pay u? and would a lil cash from meh help er things along/
[12:17] Jumpman Lane: hehehehehe
[12:17] Jenner Wise: I appealed it, it was reversed upon investigating. In fact, I've appealed, and had overturned, three suspensions.

[12:17] Jenner Wise: I've reported the person doing it, so have others. I've come here before for the same problem.
[12:18] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Cotytto Bonetto, Nava Muni, Cold Spitteler, Shorty Kurka
[12:18] Jenner Wise: And now I'm here again.

[12:18] Jumpman Lane: filing false ars apparently isnt against the tos
[12:18] Jenner Wise: lol

[12:18] Jumpman Lane: zara said they were onsidering makin i so
[12:18] Jenner Wise: It damn well should be.
[12:18] Jumpman Lane: imnot joking
[12:18] Jenner Wise: I pay to be here.
[12:19] arenda Kelley is Offline
[12:19] Jumpman Lane: she was trying to stretch the tos to "somehow " cover it like abuse of LL facilities orsomething
[12:19] Jumpman Lane: ive been falsy ared a lot
[12:19] Jenner Wise: Both accounts I've had to deal with this problem. Either I have lost my mind and in the last four months since this person has joined secondlife, I've decided to harass, or they're making up things.
[12:19] Axel Milland is Online
[12:19] Flight Band: All Go
[12:19] arenda Kelley is Online
[12:20] Smoke Wijaya: Soc crashed...
[12:20] Entered chat range: Cotytto Bonetto, Cold Spitteler, Axel Milland, Shorty Kurka
[12:20] Jenner Wise: I'd like to know what, where or when I supposedly harrssed someone for the warning I recieved this morning.

[12:21] Cotytto Bonetto: I remember you now Jenner...youy are the alt of grim thursday...youy poer5sonally attacked and orbited me at morris
[12:21] Jumpman Lane: whne
[12:21] Jumpman Lane: LAST YEAR lmao
[12:22] Jumpman Lane: when
[12:22] Jenner Wise: You're a liar.
[12:22] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[12:22] Jumpman Lane: oh geeze
[12:22] Jumpman Lane: these weekend gteam meetins rawk
[12:23] Jenner Wise: Not to mention MOrris is a no script zone. I fail to understand how you were orbited.
[12:23] Smoke Wijaya: Plexus, you are not allowed to adress the questions??
[12:23] Smoke Wijaya: since Socrates seem to had enough alreADY...
[12:23] Jumpman Lane: i'll adresss em
[12:23] Jumpman Lane: when i return
[12:23] Pierce Kronos: Plexus is working AR's
[12:23] Jumpman Lane: i have to relog its laggy
[12:23] Jenner Wise: Also, I'm reporting for disclosure.
[12:23] Socrates Linden: dang it plexus .. stop banning me
[12:24] Plexus Linden: lol
[12:24] Jumpman Lane: heheheehehe
[12:24] Pierce Kronos: WB Soc, you only missed part of the rant
[12:24] Nock Forager: wb soc.
[12:24] Socrates Linden: I believe Jenner Wise ahs the floor
[12:24] Jumpman Lane: im sur soc violated the TOS and community standards
[12:24] Jenner Wise: Yeah, and while you were goine someone said this....
[12:24] Jenner Wise: [12:21] Cotytto Bonetto: I remember you now Jenner...youy are the alt of grim thursday...youy poer5sonally attacked and orbited me at morris
[12:24] Socrates Linden: I'd suggest you report it
[12:24] Jenner Wise: That's disclosure, and lie that I orbited them.
[12:25] Pinky Vought is Online
[12:25] Jenner Wise: Yeah, how many alts will I need to use to do that?
[12:25] Pierce Kronos: if it's a lie, how can it be disclosure?
[12:25] Cotytto Bonetto: shrug...the abuse report for it is on record
[12:25] Jenner Wise: The allegation is a lie, the disclosure of my sl information is not.
[12:25] Socrates Linden: People, I do get paid but I am also volutneering my time here. If you want to bicker please do it elsewhere, I'm here to answer questions about governance, not specific cases.
[12:25] Cold Spitteler: Jen, posting that in open chat without his consent is also a violation.. let sleeping dogs lay
[12:25] Jenner Wise: Cold, please.
[12:25] Jenner Wise: He just said it.
[12:26] Axel Milland: no do not change the supject we are here for the gambling allowed ore not allowed
[12:26] Smoke Wijaya: maybe we should all stop abuse reporting for trivial stuff, stop playing the little fascist snitches we are at the moment .. this system like this is completely open to settling scores with false ARs .. happens a lot, despite we cannot tell you how to do youor job....
[12:26] Smoke Wijaya: and I will break that mic soon
[12:26] Socrates Linden: Jenner you have the floor for questions, please say "done" if you are finished
[12:26] Jenner Wise: Ok back to the issue which I waited in que for...
[12:26] richard Zhichao: i was thinking this meeting was for gaming
[12:27] Reinder Scofield is Offline

[12:27] Nava Muni: done
[12:27] Aargle Zymurgy: richard, not normally.... though today it probably will be.
[12:27] Entered chat range: Mudur Spyker
[12:27] Jenner Wise: False AR's. I'd like to know what, when and were I supposedly harassed someone this morning, which I received the AR for.
[12:27] Jenner Wise: As I said, I hadn't logged in today.
[12:28] Tim Ely is Online
[12:28] Socrates Linden: I can tell you for a fact we get a lot of AR's. Our procedure when we get one is to look into it on our side, and act based on what we find. If you feel that was not carried out by a gteam member, and appeal goes right to our boss and his supervisor to make sure we are acting correctly.
[12:29] Socrates Linden: So far most cases of we've come across have been people who *are* getting false ar's.. but just happen to be getting legit ones at the same time.
[12:29] Jenner Wise: Iow, residents will just have to continue dealing with the problem, the inconveinence.
[12:29] Socrates Linden: Apeal it, that is my final word on that.
[12:29] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[12:30] Jenner Wise: That's already been done. I may as well make a spreadsheet and just start pasting it.
[12:30] Jenner Wise: done
[12:30] Public Microphone: Next up to speak is Jumpman Lane
[12:30] Axel Milland is Offline
[12:30] Socrates Linden: Jumpman... you have the mic, and when you rock upon the mic, rock the mic right.
[12:30] Jenner Wise: NOw to file my own AR for dislcosure, which happened right here.
[12:31] Jumpman Lane: now all a yall
[12:31] Jumpman Lane: er my question is about games of skill
[12:32] Jumpman Lane: say RIGGED games of skill
[12:32] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[12:32] Jumpman Lane: would that make it a game of chance like carnival games?
[12:32] Pierce Kronos: more liek the vietname era draft lottery
[12:33] Socrates Linden: if there is a skill involved, that counters the idea of chance, it's a spectrum.
[12:33] Socrates Linden: if a game is sufficiently based on skill, it is not considred wagering.
[12:33] Jumpman Lane: i mean a game that is VERY hard to win like the last level of donky kong

[12:33] Jumpman Lane: it's possible to beat but damn near IMPOSSIBLE i wouldnt get creamed by u guys for a game like that?
[12:34] Socrates Linden: so long as teh skill of the player (not including the skill of playing the odds) determines the outcome of paid money based on a fee
[12:34] Jumpman Lane: oh ok
[12:34] Jumpman Lane: that answers my question
[12:34] Jumpman Lane: done

[12:35] Cold Spitteler: Socrates, if you are unable to clearly specify if a gaming system is within the TOS or not, would it be possible when you deem it against the TOS to explain why.. Im not sure if you are aware of the comments made by Harry Linden, but his explaination was because X$ have value, and that can not be so since it is clearly posted that L$ [libary:2db9fb6e37]Währung in [SecondLife]. Umtauschverhältnis ca. 1 Euro = 250 [L$][/libary:2db9fb6e37] have no value
[12:35] Socrates Linden: wagering is outlined in that blog post, when you pay (which can take several forms) something happens and you can get paid back (in several forms) if it's too much based on chance we consider it wagering. However the post explains it better and more accurately than I can
[12:35] Entered chat range: Nock Forager, Axel Milland
[12:35] Public Microphone: adding Lollo Tomsen to the question queue.
[12:35] Socrates Linden: $L has no value?
[12:35] Smoke Wijaya: yet poker is included...
[12:35] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Cotytto Bonetto, Indy Forder, Cold Spitteler, Shorty Kurka
[12:35] Entered chat range: Cotytto Bonetto, Indy Forder, Cold Spitteler, Shorty Kurka
[12:36] Socrates Linden: my understanding is that aroudn $250 ish $L = 1 USD
[12:36] Public Microphone: adding miniads Clip to the question queue.
[12:36] Cold Spitteler: 1.4 Second Life "currency" is a limited license right available for purchase or free distribution at Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] Lab's discretion, and is not redeemable for monetary value from Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] Lab.

You acknowledge that the Service presently includes a component of in-world fictional currency ("Currency" or "Linden Dollars" or "L$"), which constitutes a limited license right to use a feature of our product when, as, and if allowed by Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] Lab. Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] Lab may charge fees for the right to use Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] Dollars, or may distribute Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] Dollars without charge, in its sole discretion. Regardless of terminology used, Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] Dollars represent a limited license right governed solely under the terms of this Agreement, and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] Lab at any time.
[12:36] Socrates Linden: I'd say that is an established and confirmable and achievable value.
[12:36] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Nock Forager, Shadow Pidgeon, Axel Milland, Jumpman Lane
[12:36] Cold Spitteler: from the corporate TOS
[12:36] Entered chat range: Nock Forager, Shadow Pidgeon, Axel Milland, Jumpman Lane
[12:36] Aargle Zymurgy: Smoke, Poker is banned as a specific game... it doesn't matter if it's a game of skill or not.
[12:36] Jumpman Lane: exactly and Z$ was clearly a currency
[12:37] Pierce Kronos thinks it's more of a con-currency
[12:37] Ayesha Lytton: If that's true then why can we cash out L$?
[12:37] Pinky Vought is Offline
[12:37] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[12:37] Jumpman Lane: for REAL money
[12:37] Socrates Linden: If it can be *turned* into an item of value, direclty or indirectly, it's going to fall upon the rules of wagering. $L is cashed out everyday.
[12:37] Jumpman Lane: like poker chips rl
[12:38] Cold Spitteler: well then your TOS needs updating
[12:38] Socrates Linden: it has "no value" in a legal sense while it sits as a number on your account
[12:38] Jumpman Lane: i mean casino chips rl
[12:38] Socrates Linden: and poker chips in RL [libary:2db9fb6e37]Abkürzung für [Real Life] - das [Reale Leben][/libary:2db9fb6e37] have "no value" except the plastic they are made of.
[12:38] Cold Spitteler: and if LL closes the currency tomorrow... we have no legal recourse
[12:38] Jumpman Lane: i know
[12:38] Cold Spitteler: they have no substainable or guarenteed value
[12:38] Jumpman Lane: i meant casino chips which DO
[12:38] Aargle Zymurgy: Socrates, arguably, then dollar bills have no value. :)
[12:38] Smoke Wijaya: and money has no va,lue beyoind the paper it is amde of?
[12:39] Socrates Linden: that is correct AArgle
[12:39] Socrates Linden: they don't
[12:39] Socrates Linden: read the bill
[12:39] Jumpman Lane: aarglye they dont except in keysen la la land
[12:39] Jumpman Lane: gold is MONEY
[12:39] Aargle Zymurgy: the bit that says "legal tender for all debts public and private?" :)
[12:39] Jumpman Lane: in the classical sense
[12:39] Jumpman Lane: backed up by a gun
[12:39] Aargle Zymurgy: (we're off the subject)
[12:39] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Xavier Irwin, Cold Spitteler, Shorty Kurka
[12:39] Socrates Linden: GOld has a value of it's own, and is exchanged for.. (stops himself for going more off the subject)
[12:39] Entered chat range: Xavier Irwin, Cold Spitteler, Shorty Kurka
[12:39] Pierce Kronos eats popcorn as the second act begins
[12:39] Smoke Wijaya: the gold standard is gone for a while now Jumpman...
[12:40] Jumpman Lane: and alla cops that'll drag u to federal prison if u DONT take dolla bills :p
[12:40] Multi Gadget v1.54.2 by Timeless Prototype
[12:40] Smoke Wijaya: and Soc
[12:40] Cold Spitteler: GOld is a commodity not a currency ;)
[12:40] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Gellan Glenelg, Nock Forager, Axel Milland
[12:40] Socrates Linden: very well cold
[12:40] Entered chat range: Gellan Glenelg, Nock Forager, Axel Milland
[12:40] Jumpman Lane: gold is the ONLY currency
[12:40] Socrates Linden: but the point (and we did have one) is how wagering is defined
[12:40] Aargle Zymurgy: aww... we're leaving out silver. :-(
[12:40] Jumpman Lane: it has intrinsic value and being ductile can be very protable
[12:40] Jumpman Lane: gold is the ONLY real money
[12:40] Smoke Wijaya: which brings to your definition of L$ [libary:2db9fb6e37]Währung in [SecondLife]. Umtauschverhältnis ca. 1 Euro = 250 [L$][/libary:2db9fb6e37] to stay out of the loop of ebing a financial institution
[12:40] Jumpman Lane: portable
[12:40] Socrates Linden: Cold did you have a another question.. I want to leave soem time to talk about the new categories
[12:41] Socrates Linden: and we have two others queued
[12:41] Cold Spitteler: my point is not about the wadgering, as much is its about being from lindens that L$ [libary:2db9fb6e37]Währung in [SecondLife]. Umtauschverhältnis ca. 1 Euro = 250 [L$][/libary:2db9fb6e37] both have and do not have value
[12:41] You decline LL-GAMING-ISLAND*Las Vegas*, LLGaming (113, 135, 36) from A group member named Christopher Whippet.
[12:42] Public Microphone: adding Aargle Zymurgy to the question queue.
[12:42] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[12:42] Cold Spitteler: i will surrender the mic, and let the meeting progress
[12:42] Cold Spitteler: done
[12:42] Public Microphone: Next up to speak is Lollo Tomsen
[12:42] Lollo Tomsen: Thx socrates - i have prepared my statement to bring it at the point:
[12:42] Lollo Tomsen: If I look around i see many game creators and owners. So Socrates u have now the chance to give us the answers we need to keep us legal. Thats what we all here want. I m understand that u cant give any detailed infos because in that case u could be legally liable I guess. Anyway we are here to get answers. Here are my questinons: 1) Why a LL employee did declared that the Z$ and the golden nuggets system are within the borders of TOS and why did u change your mind? 2) Here are some creators, tell them how to do. Is there any chance that the get their systems legal and how? And please dont talk about the TOS FAqs, we are here because no one understand what this really means. 3) I have informations that the system of Bickys bean is within in TOS, ist that right and why? 4) What if Bicky will decide to sell his system to other owners - will they be allowed to use it?
[12:43] Public Microphone: adding Aryou Lykin to the question queue.
[12:43] Aargle Zymurgy: #3 was my question as well, Socrates
[12:43] You decline Milano Vera Duomo new Italia 4 Milano (37, 14, 33) from A group member named Melyssa Clip.
[12:43] Cold Spitteler: well composed lollo :)
[12:43] Lollo Tomsen: thx
[12:44] Aryou Lykin: i will answer your questions
[12:44] Aargle Zymurgy: darn... did Soc crash?
[12:44] Lollo Tomsen: my questions blow him away?
[12:44] Mitralone Yalin: he is taking a deep breath :p
[12:45] You: lol im on other site of usa and even i crash not that offen.
[12:45] Public Microphone: ML0RTD Kit please wait your turn to speak, to add yourself to the queue, touch the microphone, thank you.
[12:45] Socrates Linden: So this confirms why the RC I'm on is not public yet
[12:45] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Cotytto Bonetto, Cold Spitteler, Shorty Kurka
[12:45] Socrates Linden: but I'm assuming there is an RC out that shows off the new categories?
[12:45] Axel Milland is Offline
[12:45] Aargle Zymurgy: I've been using the beta, Socrates. same one?
[12:45] Entered chat range: Cotytto Bonetto, Cold Spitteler, Shorty Kurka
[12:45] Nock Forager: 1.21.0is still so unstable.
[12:46] Cold Spitteler has been on mono beta..since thursday, no crashes
[12:46] Socrates Linden: I'm on an internal one.. not realsed yet
[12:46] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Xavier Irwin, Nock Forager
[12:46] Jumpman Lane: im still usin 1.9 something
[12:46] Jumpman Lane: if it aint mandatory it sux
[12:46] Entered chat range: Xavier Irwin, Nock Forager
[12:46] Aargle Zymurgy: nah, the beta is nice.
[12:46] Socrates Linden: so lollo. your question?
[12:46] Lollo Tomsen: oh u didnt read it?
[12:46] Aargle Zymurgy: better repeat, Lollo
[12:46] Lollo Tomsen: ok i will repwat
[12:46] Jumpman Lane: heheheheh
[12:46] Socrates Linden: and I think we'll just makea day of looking at categories next week
[12:46] Lollo Tomsen: If I look around i see many game creators and owners. So Socrates u have now the chance to give us the answers we need to keep us legal. Thats what we all here want. I m understand that u cant give any detailed infos because in that case u could be legally liable I guess. Anyway we are here to get answers. Here are my questinons: 1) Why a LL employee did declared that the Z$ and the golden nuggets system are within the borders of TOS and why did u change your mind? 2) Here are some creators, tell them how to do. Is there any chance that the get their systems legal and how? And please dont talk about the TOS FAqs, we are here because no one understand what this really means. 3) I have informations that the system of Bickys bean is within in TOS, ist that right and why? 4) What if Bicky will decide to sell his system to other owners - will they be allowed to use it?
[12:46] Volli Voom: crashing at least twice a day with 1.21 :D
[12:47] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[12:47] Aargle Zymurgy: and I'll repeat that Lollo's #3 was my question as well
[12:47] Jumpman Lane: theyfixed that bug that wouldnt let me leavethe playboy sl group im so stoked with LL now
[12:48] Tim Ely is Offline
[12:48] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Smoke Wijaya, Shadow Pidgeon
[12:48] Entered chat range: Smoke Wijaya, Shadow Pidgeon
[12:48] Socrates Linden: There should have been no "declaring" of a system as ok, we found imagines in world of a picture of a linden "oking' a sytem. Those wehre not endorced by us and was removed. Our officially policy remains as it is on the blog. We try to point out what is and is not allowed but this is intented as a guide, not a write off. Every object you make or buy needs to be reviewed by the users.
[12:49] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Liqueur Felix
[12:49] Entered chat range: Liqueur Felix
[12:49] Cold Spitteler: so if we all go abuse report bicky beans.. it will "be reviewed"
[12:49] richard Zhichao: lol
[12:49] Ayesha Lytton: If a Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] saw the system and it was against TOS why wasn't it removed?
[12:50] Aryou Lykin: the system is not against TOS
[12:50] Axel Milland is Online
[12:50] Flight Band: All Go
[12:50] Socrates Linden: we get to what we can, but mostly yes it will launch a review. we can not go past our current resrouces however.
[12:50] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Shorty Kurka
[12:50] Entered chat range: Shorty Kurka
[12:51] Aargle Zymurgy: I can appreciate the limited resources issue (I deal with that for my own CS), but you realise that, to some extent, this is a "read our minds" policy?
[12:51] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Cold Spitteler
[12:51] Entered chat range: Cold Spitteler
[12:51] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Nock Forager
[12:51] Entered chat range: Nock Forager
[12:52] Socrates Linden: We try to be clear in our policy. We will try to be clearer if this is not sufficent.
[12:52] Ayesha Lytton: I would think a system that may or may not be gambling and was for sale gridwide would be a top priority for review - over, say, the infraction Jenner was warned for (merited or not)
[12:52] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[12:53] Jumpman Lane: do u guys work in starbucks?
[12:53] Socrates Linden: Right now our AR system is geared to what it's always been designed for. Grid [libary:2db9fb6e37]Begriff für das [SecondLife] Server-Netzwerk[/libary:2db9fb6e37] attacks. To take care of growing issues such as the one we are discussing, we plan to grow the system out of just gteam (or perhaps grow gteam to handle it all)
[12:53] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Mudur Spyker, Jumpman Lane
[12:53] Socrates Linden: jump man don't ask questions out of turn. and no because the second time they heard the rape cubes they kicked me out
[12:53] Jumpman Lane: u need ur mentors to do intel for ya
[12:53] Entered chat range: Mudur Spyker, Jumpman Lane
[12:53] Jumpman Lane: grid wide sitreps
[12:53] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Liqueur Felix, Nock Forager, Aazy Harbour
[12:53] Jumpman Lane: so u know what's oput ther e
[12:53] Pierce Kronos: HI Colton, Welcome to "It's a set up"
[12:53] Jumpman Lane: hehehehe
[12:53] Entered chat range: Liqueur Felix, Nock Forager, Aazy Harbour
[12:54] Colton Linden: How's it going
[12:54] Jumpman Lane: i want ur bear!
[12:54] Pierce Kronos: entertaining as always
[12:54] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Jumpman Lane
[12:54] Jumpman Lane: hey colton
[12:54] Entered chat range: Jumpman Lane
[12:54] Socrates Linden: Hey colton.. the place is almost empty.. hradly any questions. Lollo did you have another question?
[12:54] Lollo Tomsen: no thx
[12:54] Lollo Tomsen: done
[12:54] Public Microphone: Next up to speak is miniads Clip
[12:54] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Aargle Zymurgy, Mudur Spyker
[12:54] miniads Clip: well here is my proposal for a free play system.

If a persons purchase a product of value from my clothing vendor (product will be no transfer which will hold its value) then the persons who purchased the item from the vendor will be entitled to free play on games of chance
the person will not be allowed to redeem any of his free play credits for L$ [libary:2db9fb6e37]Währung in [SecondLife]. Umtauschverhältnis ca. 1 Euro = 250 [L$][/libary:2db9fb6e37] but anything that he/she wins on the game of chance will be payed in L$.

I am aware that you can not aprove this system but a ackolegment that these rules will not conflict with LL TOS would be great.
i have studied LL TOS and i believe that the way in which i wish to operate this system will not conflict with TOS.
[12:54] Entered chat range: Aargle Zymurgy, Mudur Spyker
[12:54] Aargle Zymurgy: gah..... I missed some of the answers
[12:54] Jumpman Lane: i keep meh linden bears in meh bling floder
[12:54] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Aazy Harbour
[12:55] miniads Clip: What does “wagering” mean according to this policy?
The term “wagering” applies to any covered game or activity (i.e. game of chance, sports betting) in which a user contributes Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] dollars (or real-world money or things of value), whether into a pot, at a table game, at a house game, for purchase of a card (such as Bingo), or in any way *risks* Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] dollars based on whether an event may or may not occur, such as whether a team will win a sporting event, or whether Barack Obama will win the Democratic primary.
[12:55] Entered chat range: Aazy Harbour
[12:55] Lollo Tomsen: i let u the chance aargle
[12:55] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Cold Spitteler, Shorty Kurka
[12:55] Aargle Zymurgy: :) thanks, Lollo
[12:55] miniads Clip: 1. In this system there is no RISK in Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] Dollars been loosed as the person has purchased a product of value for hi L$.

What about games in which no Linden [libary:2db9fb6e37]Synonym für [LindenLab]. Wird im Zusammenhang mit der [Währung] [Lindendollar] oder auch als [Nachname] [Linden] für [Administratoren] in [SecondLife][/libary:2db9fb6e37] dollars or other “consideration” is accepted?
If entry is truly “free” (as with a promotional sweepstakes), and the game’s operator requires no “consideration” or payment from other players or entrants, then that activity will likely be permitted, assuming compliance with all other applicable laws

2.My system is a promotional sweepstake and the free play credit is free.
[12:55] Entered chat range: Cold Spitteler, Shorty Kurka
[12:56] miniads Clip: my terms meet toss
[12:56] miniads Clip: and theres other ways to meet tos
[12:56] Pierce Kronos: odm
[12:56] Multi Gadget v1.54.2 by Timeless Prototype
[12:56] miniads Clip: but you guys still say we are not?
[12:56] Socrates Linden: mini would you say your game gives people a random chance of gaining funds?
[12:56] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Mudur Spyker
[12:56] Socrates Linden: that's what you should ask yourself
[12:56] Entered chat range: Mudur Spyker
[12:57] miniads Clip: ok free play is allowed
[12:57] Pierce Kronos: isn't "free play credit is free" both redundant and an oxymoron?
[12:57] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[12:57] Aargle Zymurgy: um, Socrates, sweepstakes are specifically allowed by the TOS.... that's a random chance of gaining funds
[12:57] Jumpman Lane: thanx colton
[12:57] miniads Clip: yes but free play credits have no value
[12:57] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Cold Spitteler
[12:58] Jumpman Lane: i have like 12 now
[12:58] Entered chat range: Cold Spitteler
[12:58] Socrates Linden: I agree it's complex. we will work towards a more clear communication if it is still confusing to everyone
[12:59] miniads Clip: so is that a no?
[12:59] arenda Kelley is Offline
[12:59] ~EA~Ertaly ZHAO "Neko": Could not find animation 'neko hover'
[12:59] ~EA~Ertaly ZHAO "Neko": Could not find animation 'neko hover'.
[12:59] ~EA~Ertaly ZHAO "Neko": Could not find animation 'neko hover'
[12:59] ~EA~Ertaly ZHAO "Neko": Could not find animation 'neko hover'.
[12:59] ~EA~Ertaly ZHAO "Neko": Could not find animation 'neko hover'
[12:59] Socrates Linden: I'm only familiar with your system as you describe it. Should it be reported you would get a warning.
[12:59] ~EA~Ertaly ZHAO "Neko": Could not find animation 'neko hover'.
[12:59] Pierce Kronos: Hi Teagan, yer just in time.
[12:59] Aargle Zymurgy: hey! Teagan! hi
[12:59] Pierce Kronos: .
[12:59] Teagan Linden: Or way late :) Hi all
[13:00] miniads Clip: done
[13:00] Public Microphone: Next up to speak is Aargle Zymurgy
[13:00] arenda Kelley is Online
[13:00] Socrates Linden: Aargle, go ahead
[13:00] Aargle Zymurgy: ok, as was pointed out, you've got a lot of game creators and owners here today...
[13:00] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Liqueur Felix
[13:00] Entered chat range: Liqueur Felix
[13:00] Aargle Zymurgy: like others, I was given an ultimatum to have things closed down by Monday and I am complying....
[13:01] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Cotytto Bonetto
[13:01] Entered chat range: Cotytto Bonetto
[13:01] Aargle Zymurgy: however, I understand that a grace period was given because the LL staff DID tell everyone that, yes, this was acceptable.....
[13:01] Aargle Zymurgy: I AR'd myself at the start.
[13:01] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Mitralone Yalin
[13:01] Aargle Zymurgy: I AR'd the system that I examined.
[13:01] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[13:02] Entered chat range: Mitralone Yalin
[13:02] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Cotytto Bonetto
[13:02] Aargle Zymurgy: but now, that leads to my last bit, and a straight answer would be nice...
[13:02] Entered chat range: Cotytto Bonetto
[13:02] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Axel Milland
[13:02] Aargle Zymurgy: but have the systems based on "sweepstakes" been left alone in this process?
[13:02] Entered chat range: Axel Milland
[13:02] Jumpman Lane: im ruthed
[13:02] Aargle Zymurgy: or were they given the same ultimatum?
[13:02] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Mitralone Yalin
[13:02] Aargle Zymurgy: (Jumpman, you're ghosted)
[13:03] Entered chat range: Mitralone Yalin
[13:03] Jumpman Lane: im all crewed up
[13:03] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Shorty Kurka
[13:03] Entered chat range: Shorty Kurka
[13:03] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Cotytto Bonetto
[13:03] Entered chat range: Cotytto Bonetto
[13:03] Socrates Linden: Sweepstakes fall under another set of rules. The details of I'm not familiar with. But if they are violationg the same rules they will be equally subject to the TOS
[13:04] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Nock Forager, Axel Milland
[13:04] Aargle Zymurgy: I understand that much...
[13:04] You decline NAG @ Rich Island Sim, Rich Island (79, 236, 22) from A group member named Lori Giha.
[13:04] Entered chat range: Nock Forager, Axel Milland
[13:04] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Cotytto Bonetto
[13:04] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[13:04] Entered chat range: Cotytto Bonetto
[13:04] Aargle Zymurgy: if Sapphire Moon, LL, myself and others adapt to using a sweepstakes system in turn....
[13:04] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Jumpman Lane
[13:04] Entered chat range: Jumpman Lane
[13:04] Socrates Linden: we can't descrbe our actions on specifc people.
[13:04] Public Microphone: adding Jumpman Lane to the question queue.
[13:04] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Liqueur Felix, Shorty Kurka, Astra Constantine
[13:05] Entered chat range: Liqueur Felix, Shorty Kurka, Astra Constantine
[13:05] Jumpman Lane: sup teagan
[13:05] Teagan Linden: Heya
[13:05] Aargle Zymurgy: um... too late, Socrates... Harry has already stated as much.
[13:05] Aargle Zymurgy: are we going to start this nightmare for all of us (I include the g-team) if we shift to such a system
[13:05] Mams Broek is Offline
[13:06] Socrates Linden: So If I could get a quick impromtue voite as we are out of time here.
[13:06] Belladonna McDowwll is Offline
[13:06] miniads Clip: please dont let us spend more hour creating to tell us its agains TOS
[13:06] Socrates Linden: Who would be itnerested in having someone form our legal dept. host a meeting here?
[13:06] Aryou Lykin: May i say a few words
[13:06] Ayesha Lytton: I would!
[13:07] Aargle Zymurgy raises both hands
[13:07] Pierce Kronos: Thanks guys, way cool meeting, let's do it again next Saturday with even more people!
[13:07] Dakota Schwade: Yes.
[13:07] Aryou Lykin: its about sweepstakes
[13:07] Cold Spitteler raises his hand!!!!
[13:07] Jumpman Lane: like trinity
[13:07] Jumpman Lane: havent seen her in a while
[13:07] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Cotytto Bonetto, Mudur Spyker
[13:07] Mitralone Yalin raises right hand
[13:07] Volli Voom: sure
[13:07] Entered chat range: Cotytto Bonetto, Mudur Spyker
[13:07] Aryou Lykin: Socrates, i would like to make a statement
[13:07] tchebbe Yongho is Online
[13:07] Belladonna McDowwll is Online
[13:07] Jumpman Lane: yup bring back trinity
[13:08] Socrates Linden: Aargle going to clear you forward and get quick words from Aryou and Jumpan please join us next time
[13:08] Socrates Linden: done
[13:08] Public Microphone: Next up to speak is Aryou Lykin
[13:08] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Axel Milland
[13:08] Jumpman Lane: i will
[13:08] Entered chat range: Axel Milland
[13:08] Xina Broek is Offline
[13:08] Nock Forager: (Seems we need extra hours and place to talk about this problem.)
[13:08] Aryou Lykin: i just have a quick thing to say about sweepstakes
[13:08] Axel Milland: im very confused
[13:08] Volli Voom: we will..
[13:08] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Mitralone Yalin
[13:08] richard Zhichao: ?
[13:08] Jumpman Lane: done
[13:08] Aryou Lykin: hi all let me say, im here representing Bicky, 1 year ago i came up with the beans system, this is a system that ive been doing for 4 years in RL [libary:2db9fb6e37]Abkürzung für [Real Life] - das [Reale Leben][/libary:2db9fb6e37] where casinos arent legal, , a sweepstakes is a promotion, bicky beans you do not BUY the beans to play with.... you can email or camp for them, we have done over 6 months of homework before we came out with system..... if the Z$ or G$ or whatever was legal, dont u think they would have internet sites all over with that concept??, we have given LL fulll disclosure on how our system works and operates...we didnt just copy a system and make it work
[13:08] Entered chat range: Mitralone Yalin
[13:09] Aryou Lykin: i have been doing it for years, and you cant just throw together a system like that
[13:09] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[13:09] Socrates Linden: I will pass on the idea of haivng legal meet with the many gaming creatos and see what we can clear up
[13:09] Aargle Zymurgy: Socrates, that would be fantastic.
[13:09] Socrates Linden: I just can't keep giving info and saying IANAL
[13:09] Pinky Vought is Online
[13:09] miniads Clip: braVO
[13:09] Socrates Linden: mostly cause it sounds perverted
[13:10] Aargle Zymurgy: LOL
[13:10] Socrates Linden: like a apple based enema
[13:10] Socrates Linden: iANAL..... washing you clean
[13:10] Socrates Linden: (for those not in the know.... IANAL = I am not a lawyer
[13:10] Cold Spitteler: sure.... ;)
[13:10] Dakota Schwade: I was wondering...
[13:11] Socrates Linden: Ok I appreciate teh huge turn out, next week will deifnately be about the categories
[13:11] Socrates Linden: shutdown mic
[13:11] Nock Forager: We will have official RC till then.
[13:11] Jenner Wise: How about instructing other Lindens to ignore IM's from residents and not take action against someone based on their word alone instead of following procedure and telling said resident to file an AR like the rest of us? Oh, Hi Teagan!
[13:11] Socrates Linden: ok broad comment I can't take any friend notices I'd have too many.. if you want a bear IM me and I'll send one after my lunch
[13:12] Socrates Linden: I have to eat and be back to cover for these otehr wonderful gteamers who read reports while I gabber here
[13:12] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Nock Forager, Spudgy Dean, Dakota Schwade, Jumpman Lane
[13:12] Entered chat range: Nock Forager, Spudgy Dean, Dakota Schwade, Jumpman Lane
[13:12] Socrates Linden: please give a great thank you to the very quiet lindens who answer AR's 'so I can focus on questions
[13:12] Aargle Zymurgy: thanks for your time Socrates, Plexus, and Teagen. its appreciated as always.
[13:12] Jumpman Lane: yup
[13:12] miniads Clip: TY
[13:12] Nock Forager: Thanks for meeting
[13:12] Plexus Linden: lol
[13:12] Mitralone Yalin nods.
[13:13] Cold Spitteler: thank you all for your time, and i look forward to a future meeting for game creators
[13:13] miniads Clip: sory when is that?
[13:13] Colton Linden: take care everyone
[13:13] Socrates Linden: I'll pass on the word.... our legal team would have to agree to it
[13:13] Aargle Zymurgy: oh, and I missed Coltong. thanks to you too
[13:13] Socrates Linden: if they do agree PLEASE don't scare them off
[13:13] Axel Milland is Offline
[13:14] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Shorty Kurka
[13:14] Aargle Zymurgy: give word to any of the principle game makers and the word will get around. Cold, Aryou or I are a good place to start
[13:14] Entered chat range: Shorty Kurka
[13:14] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[13:14] Nock Forager: Crashed again?
[13:14] Aryou Lykin: 8)
[13:15] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Aryou Lykin
[13:15] Entered chat range: Aryou Lykin
[13:15] What is Abuse Kiosk owned by the group 'Maintenance' gave you 'Links to ToS and Community Standards' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Kremer/160/143/29 ).
[13:15] Teagan Linden: Ahh, yep, he crashed :(
[13:15] Aargle Zymurgy: ok, bye everyone... I pushed off RL [libary:2db9fb6e37]Abkürzung für [Real Life] - das [Reale Leben][/libary:2db9fb6e37] for too long for today's meeting. I'm sure I'll be talking to a lot of you soon.
[13:16] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Ayesha Lytton, Jenner Wise, Mitralone Yalin
[13:16] Cold Spitteler: tc aargle
[13:16] Entered chat range: Ayesha Lytton, Jenner Wise, Mitralone Yalin
[13:16] Flight Band: All Go
[13:16] Axel Milland is Online
[13:16] Teagan Linden: See you next week everyone, sorry I couldn't make it until the end! Take care
[13:16] Volli Voom: cya aargle
[13:16] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Axel Milland, Shorty Kurka
[13:16] You: c/y aargl
[13:16] Entered chat range: Axel Milland, Shorty Kurka
[13:16] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Spudgy Dean, Cold Spitteler, Aryou Lykin
[13:16] Entered chat range: Spudgy Dean, Cold Spitteler, Aryou Lykin
[13:16] Jumpman Lane: crap its too laggy here
[13:16] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Kimber Martinek, Jumpman Lane
[13:17] Jenner Wise: What a bunch of asshattery.
[13:17] Entered chat range: Kimber Martinek, Jumpman Lane
[13:17] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Ayesha Lytton
[13:17] Entered chat range: Ayesha Lytton
[13:17] Axel Milland: im feel very bad in my stomach here
[13:17] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Astra Constantine, Mitralone Yalin
[13:17] Entered chat range: Astra Constantine, Mitralone Yalin
[13:17] Jenner Wise: It's from all the crap you just had to swallow.
[13:17] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Jumpman Lane, Kimber Martinek
[13:17] Axel Milland: yep
[13:17] Entered chat range: Jumpman Lane, Kimber Martinek
[13:17] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Mitralone Yalin
[13:17] Axel Milland: thye can do a yes 3 mounts ago
[13:18] Entered chat range: Mitralone Yalin
[13:18] Axel Milland: and now no
[13:18] Aryou Lykin: bottom line, do u reLLY KNOW WHY THE z$4 didnt work?
[13:18] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Astra Constantine
[13:18] Entered chat range: Astra Constantine
[13:18] Volli Voom: why?
[13:18] Aryou Lykin: all the owners
[13:18] Astra Constantine: yep, sounds like a bunch of politicians with a conspiracy to hide if u ask me
[13:18] Axel Milland: its the same if they do in usa a 50% tax off and tree mounth later 50%more
[13:18] Aryou Lykin: everywhere i went i saw CASINO
[13:18] Aryou Lykin: just begging to get shut down
[13:18] Axel Milland: i think the people will burn that white houswe
[13:19] Aryou Lykin: if it was low key, it would have flown\
[13:19] Aryou Lykin: but everyone brought so much attention to it
[13:19] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass... the air is full of weed smoke
[13:19] Aryou Lykin: thats y in begonning SL [libary:2db9fb6e37]Abkürzung für [Second Life][/libary:2db9fb6e37] didnt do anything
[13:19] Aryou Lykin: it was low key
[13:20] Axel Milland: aryou beansd for camp sorry man i laugh about it we lost a lot in your (legal) casino
[13:20] miniads Clip: who up for chest?
[13:20] Kimber Martinek: i dont see why we cant gamble anyway, it our money
[13:20] Aryou Lykin: then everyone had it
[13:20] Aryou Lykin: hey but its LEGAL
[13:20] Axel Milland: sorry but im really fucked up here better go
[13:20] Kimber Martinek: like we dont spend enough here on other shit
[13:20] Jenner Wise: Because the Feds can't tax it.
[13:20] Astra Constantine: i think the problem is that the TOS is ambiguous at best
[13:20] Axel Milland: yeah say that to my mother ha hah ha
[13:21] Aryou Lykin: no one did any research
[13:21] Aryou Lykin: just bought
[13:21] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: Crow Carter
[13:21] Axel Milland: i did i aked manye times to those shitty lindens
[13:22] Aryou Lykin: if u didnt get answers from them, go elsewhere
[13:22] Aryou Lykin: go above them
[13:22] Multi Gadget v1.54.2: TJj69 Benelli
[13:22] Axel Milland: and here they say we dit not approve anything
[13:22] Entered chat range: TJj69 Benelli
[13:22] Ayesha Lytton: I did research, and acted based on LL leaving the systems be and even openly OKing them (despite their claim they didn't)
[13:22] Aryou Lykin: they didnt approve it
[13:22] Astra Constantine: its set up so the lindens are the only ones who ever win at a game
[13:22] Axel Milland: they cover there own asses
[13:22] Aryou Lykin: they never gave him a strait ok
[13:22] Axel Milland: what use has had this meeting
[13:22] Jenner Wise: lol
[13:23] Aryou Lykin: its part LL fault
[13:23] Astra Constantine: this meeting accomplished nothing
[13:23] Axel Milland: well if beands is legal
[13:23] Xina Broek is Online
[13:23] Axel Milland: than i know what too do
[13:23] Astra Constantine: wonder if the legal rep will show up for a meeting- i wonder....
[13:23] Aryou Lykin: yu cant just throw that system together
[13:24] Aryou Lykin: ill pick it clean, there is so much u need to know
[13:24] Aryou Lykin: u want a 100% legit system, beans will be for sale in 2 days
[13:24] Mams Broek is Online
[13:24] Aryou Lykin: and i will guaranteee it wont get shut down
[13:24] You: minads your read the webpage ?
[13:25] Axel Milland: i played it aryo
[13:25] Axel Milland: and it is still gambli8ng
[13:25] Astra Constantine: but if everyone starts using it , whats to stop the Lindens from later deciding it cant be used either
[13:25] Aryou Lykin: you fail to get the concept beind it
[13:25] Aryou Lykin: behind
[13:25] Axel Milland: maby you did good research i believe you did
[13:25] Ayesha Lytton: yeah, and if it does are you going to refund us in cash for everything including our time spent setting up yet another system?
[13:25] Axel Milland: but in the simple way we gamble
[13:25] Aryou Lykin: because its sweepstakes, if they ban it, they will have sucjh a lawsuit
[13:26] Ayesha Lytton: they COULD get sued for what they've done already IMO
[13:26] Aryou Lykin: well thats all ur faults for buying and not doeing research
[13:26] Astra Constantine: they'll find a way around a lawsuit- u watch
[13:26] Aryou Lykin: they cant, ive been doing this for years
[13:26] Michel35 Writer is Offline
[13:26] Aryou Lykin: i put gambling in florida where casinos arent allowed
[13:27] Axel Milland: i hope you are right
[13:27] Aryou Lykin: i own RL [libary:2db9fb6e37]Abkürzung für [Real Life] - das [Reale Leben][/libary:2db9fb6e37] stores that do this
[13:27] Aryou Lykin: i know what im talking abot
[13:27] Aryou Lykin: if this wasnt legal, pepsi, mcfonalds
[13:27] Aryou Lykin: would not be able to do sweepstakes
[13:27] Axel Milland: no true
[13:28] Aryou Lykin: you can t just throw this system together either, its been 8 months before we were able to get it off ground
[13:28] Aryou Lykin: there is more to it than what u see
[13:28] Tim Ely is Online
[13:28] Aryou Lykin: like i said if Z$ was legal
[13:28] Aryou Lykin: dont u thing\k ud see it all over internet, all the casinos that shut down
[13:29] Aryou Lykin: dont u think they would have used that
[13:29] Aryou Lykin: i have RL [libary:2db9fb6e37]Abkürzung für [Real Life] - das [Reale Leben][/libary:2db9fb6e37] stores to back me up
[13:29] Aryou Lykin: with same system
[13:29] Astra Constantine: all of u pardon my comments- i just had to blow off some steam. I an just utterly disgusted with the way the Lindens handle things right now
[13:29] Aryou Lykin: police came into myu stores
[13:29] Aryou Lykin: i told them dont let the door hit u on the way out
[13:29] Aryou Lykin: they did everything they could to shut me down
[13:30] Aryou Lykin: final result.... i now have cops come in and play ggames
[13:30] Aryou Lykin: lol
[13:30] Aryou Lykin: yes what LL was shitty
[13:30] Axel Milland: ha ha hah
[13:30] Aryou Lykin: but u all know gambling was banned before
[13:30] Astra Constantine: i felt like puking during that meeting
[13:30] Aryou Lykin: and everyone brought so much qttention on it
[13:30] Pinky Vought is Offline
[13:31] Aryou Lykin: and 1 other thing u guys didnt know
[13:31] Aryou Lykin: paypal....
[13:31] Aryou Lykin: my friend wo works there
[13:31] Aryou Lykin: told me they were thinking of cutting odff sl
[13:31] Aryou Lykin: because of the gambling
[13:31] Aryou Lykin: because there was so much rukus about it
[13:31] Aryou Lykin: ppl need to learn to be low key
[13:32] Aryou Lykin: ur just lucky aargle is good, and ur getting r $$ bank $$ back
[13:32] Aryou Lykin: and he is willing to swap games
[13:33] Ayesha Lytton: But Aryou, if you are low key people don't come, or can't understand your system. And it's guaranteed someone else will be screaming Casino!!! so you lose out.
[13:33] Astra Constantine: so if u need to be low key how do u advertise?
[13:33] Aryou Lykin: you can be low key, and still be succesful
[13:33] Aryou Lykin: have u ever seen moon advertise?
[13:33] Aryou Lykin: she is super busy
[13:33] Aryou Lykin: and never advertised
[13:33] Aryou Lykin: she doesnt draw attention to herself
[13:34] Aryou Lykin: but ppl know she is there
[13:34] Ayesha Lytton: My place, for example, has a high % of newbies. they need simple explanations and big signs.
[13:34] Aryou Lykin: im not saying dont advertise
[13:34] Aryou Lykin: im just saying all the AR reports
[13:34] Ayesha Lytton: I didn't know about her for months
[13:34] Astra Constantine: yes newbies need lots of explanations
[13:34] Aryou Lykin: everyone reporting everyones else game room
[13:34] Aryou Lykin: that was main prob
[13:34] Aryou Lykin: when someone opened up, everyone sent an AR to LL
[13:35] Aryou Lykin: thats drawing attention
[13:35] Axel Milland: not me
[13:35] Axel Milland: i was very low key
[13:35] Aryou Lykin: there were hundreds who did
[13:35] Axel Milland: but im fucked
[13:35] Aryou Lykin: and did it just for spite
[13:35] Aryou Lykin: if we all worked together and not try to hoard the market
[13:35] Aryou Lykin: it would have stayed
[13:36] Aryou Lykin: im all for it
[13:36] Axel Milland: yes maby\
[13:36] Aryou Lykin: i wish they didnt go
[13:36] Ayesha Lytton: I'd never heard of bickybeans until aargle started discussing the system he was making and i was chatting with sorina about it. she told me about sapphire and bicky. i'd owned and played games for months before that
[13:36] Aryou Lykin: but too much b/s happened
[13:36] Aryou Lykin: see bicky doesnt advertise much
[13:36] Aryou Lykin: he is low key, but he has 1000 players come in there
[13:36] Aryou Lykin: they love place
[13:37] Aryou Lykin: the roulette is best in sl
[13:37] You: i know bicky when i soled a letterZ to him . he told me he had a idea but never sad wat it was
[13:37] Aryou Lykin: its unreal
[13:37] Aryou Lykin: well i gave him idea 1 year ago
[13:37] Aryou Lykin: and we worke on it since
[13:37] Aryou Lykin: right after ban we were working on it
[13:37] Aryou Lykin: we told NO ONE
[13:38] You: that is posble i made leterZ after the ban
[13:38] Axel Milland: well then now we have to wait till monday
[13:38] Aryou Lykin: its legit because of the inner workings of it
[13:38] You: he never got in to ditails only that he had a idea
[13:38] Axel Milland: and then we know off woc is still alive
[13:38] Axel Milland: i doubt it still
[13:38] Axel Milland: because tos is gambling
[13:39] Axel Milland: and your place is that aswell
[13:39] Axel Milland: but you are doing really great if they keep you alive
[13:39] Ayesha Lytton: The other issue here is you have no competition within your system.
 
also für mich ist der chatlog nicht nachvollziehbar bzw. bin ehrlich macht mir zuviel arbeit. du warst doch da schreib doch einfach in 2-3 sätzen was bei raus gekommen ist
 
Naja, mich wundert nur, dass es doch eine ganze Weile gedauert hat, bis LL eingegriffen hat. Dass der Zwischenschritt über Z$ oder was auch immer eine reine Verschleierung bzw. der Versuch war, das Verbot auszuhebeln, sollte eigentlich jedem klar sein.

Das einzige wirkliche Problem sehe ich darin, dass bei LL die linke Hand oft nicht weiß was die rechte tut, und dass es Lindens gibt, die sich nicht wirklich mit dem auskennen was sie eigentlich wissen sollten. Die geben dann Antworten die keinen Pfifferling wert sind und auf die man sich - wie man hier mal wieder sieht mit der "Erlaubnis" durch Zara Linden - niemals wieder berufen kann.
 
Sir Weledniker schrieb:
also für mich ist der chatlog nicht nachvollziehbar bzw. bin ehrlich macht mir zuviel arbeit. du warst doch da schreib doch einfach in 2-3 sätzen was bei raus gekommen ist


Wer schon mal bei einer Sitzung von Lotte Linden dabei war , der wird merken das die Linden Mitarbeiter in "nichtsaussagen" geschult werden. Denn egal wie direkt und Präzise man fragt , Socrates Linden weiss sich immer wieder herauszuwinden. Im allgemeinen schiebt er immer wieder die TOS vor, die aber eigendlich alles und nichts aussagt.

Ich denke das die ganzen Spielehersteller sich auch eher eine richtige Aussage auf die man sich berufen kann, ob jetzt positiv oder negativ, erwartet haben, doch da kamen nur Floskeln und nichts genaues weiss man nicht.

Meiner Meinung nach fehlt ein einfaches Systhem in SL , eine befugte Gruppe von Linden Mitarbeiter die ein klares und bindendes OK oder NOT OK herausgeben können. Leute an die man sich wenden kann , sozusagen der Support für Games.

Es gab mal das G-Team das teilweise unverbindliche OK herausgegeben hat , allerdings wurde das auch mitlerweile aufgelöst.

Wer also erhofft irgendwelche Aussagen aus dem obrigen Chatlog entnehmen zu können ist leider auf dem Holzweg. Die einzige Aussage die dabei rüber kommt ist das Socrates Linden dazu nichts weiter sagen möchte als das man die TOS durchlesen soll.

Gruss aladin
 
hmm nicht ganz richtig..

Aargle Zymurgy, der ersteller der zyngos und mitgründer der z$ Games arbeitet momentan an einer lösung, seine bei ihm in der zorkmid zone gekauften spiele gegen Zyngo oder ähnliches umzutauschen. (Gebraucht gekaufte spiele ausgeschlossen)

Ich weiss nicht ob es hilfreich ist, aber wenn möglich (und noch vorhanden) dann sucht euch die transaktions nummer etc. raus für die z$ games.


Lg Take
 
Zusammenfassung des Chatblogs:

  • * Socrates Linden macht keine konkreten verbindlichen Aussagen zu Rechtsthemen und zur legalität eines bestimmten Spiels insbesondere.

    * Die übrigen Lindens beim AR-Team machen auch keine derartigen Aussagen.

    * Überhaupt macht nur die Rechtsabteilung derartige verbindliche Aussagen.

    * Dass etwas nach einem selbst-AR nicht gleich entfernt wird bedeutet nicht, dass es dadurch legal ist.

    * Ein AR ist nicht geeignet um die Legalität eines Spiels zu klären.

    * Linden Labs hat kein einziges Spiel als Legal erklärt, auch nicht Zygno o.Ä. Jedes Spiel kann jederzeit verboten sein.

    * Sobald man mit Zufallselementen ohne Skills und mit Einsatz um Dinge spielt, die einen direkten oder indirekten Wert darstellen wird das AR-Team wegen Wagering/Gambling aktiv werden, das betrifft also auch irgendwelche Ersatzwährung wie Goldnuggets oder Z$.

    * Überhaupt gelten die TOS und die Richtlinien in http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/08/09/anti-gambling-policy-update-faq/

Dass die keine konkreten Aussagen machen liegt wohl daran, dass sie das wohl nicht dürfen, da hat ganz sicher die Rechtsabteilung einen Riegel vorgeschoben.
 
Ich werd bekloppt...
Sorry..

Ich habe Z$ Geräte... Fast 10.000 Z$ auf meinem Konto gehabt. Server Down. Meine Kohle scheint weg.
Keine Möglichkeiten für mich nachzuvollziehen, wie viel ich genau drauf habe/hatte.
Was für eine Verarsche! Das ist Bauernfängerei. Ein System in Betrieb zu nehmen und ohne für mich sichtbare Vorwarnung einfach wieder raus zu nehmen.

HIER GEHTS AUCH UM GELD !!! Und keiner kann hier Goldtaler legen!

Jetzt muss ich mühselig die Transaktionslisten durchgehen oder was?
Es muss doch möglich sein, dass die Datenbank von den Z$ Verbrechern
die Guthaben aufweißt und dann die Leute ausbezahlt werden. Das erwarte ich ganz einfach, wenn man mich schon auf Eis legt.

Jetzt zu den Spielgeräten!
Sorry. Das ist das Internet hier! Im Internet findest du alle möglichen Arten von Spielglück. Casinos, Lotto, Bingo ach und den ganzen anderen Kram. Was soll das von Linden. Sollen lieber mal der Prostitution von Minderjährigen hier nachgehen und den Dieben, die hier Scripte schreiben auf die Schliche kommen.
Ich habe einen Inventarverlust von über 60.000 Linden in dem halben Jahr hier zu verzeichnen. Mittlerweile werden die Tickets einfach nur von Linden ohne wirkliche Aktivität und immer mit der selben Antwort (Cache löschen und in den Lost and Found Ordner schauen) geschlossen.

Geräte wie Zyngo, Shrooms, Poker oder King Bing. Das sind spiele, wo jeder auf Anhieb sieht, worauf er sich einlässt. Was zahl ich und was kann ich gewinnen. Süchtig macht SL und nicht die Spiele! Was für ein blödes Handeln von Sir mächtig LINDEN!

Jetzt hab ich nen Hals.
60.000 Linden $ an Werten aus meinem INVENTAR weg!
7 Geräte, die jetzt völlig unnütz sind, da ohne Z$ nicht spielbar.
ca. 10.000 L$ in form von Z$ auf einem von mir nicht mehr erreichbaren einfach heruntergefahrenen Server.
Keine Informationen an die Hersteller. Keine Auszahlung. Ich stehe kurz davor das Handeln von Linden und den Geld Dieben zu beklagen!

ICH WILL MEIN GELD. ICH WILL MEINEN EHRLICHEN SPASS und endlich mal deutsche Äusserungen an jeden Vertragspartner hier!

So.. Überdruckventil erst mal wieder zu!
 
Ist doch eigentlich einfach. Internet-Glücksspiele sind sowohl in Kalifornien als auch in Deutschland verboten. Wer damit sein Geld verdienen will, ob nun als Betreiber oder als Spieler, muss halt damit rechnen, das von jetzt auf sofort Schluss sein kann.
 

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